Safeguarding with Tracy Walker

Mark Simpkins (00:02.924)
Hello everyone and well, first of all, happy new year. is 2025. It’s my first podcast since I’ve been back. So I realized it’s a bit late in the day, but happy new year to all of my listeners out there and welcome to this episode of Effy Gold, your source for real talk and real solutions in the world of further education.

As always, I’m your host, Mark Simpkins, and I’m here alongside my guests to bring insights that will hopefully take your provision to the next level. And today, I’m absolutely delighted to invite and welcome Tracy Walker to the pod. How are you doing today, Tracy?

Tracy Walker (00:43.414)
I’m good, thank you Mark.

Mark Simpkins (00:45.336)
Great, thank you for joining today. Obviously it’s a bit bright on our cameras, on our video here. But I’m not gonna complain too much as it’s been a bit rainy and a bit horrible recently. So I’ll take any bit of sun that’s dishing out really, to be honest. But yeah, thank you so much for joining today. And before we get cracking with today’s pod, do you wanna just give our listeners a brief kind of introduction to you and what you’re up to and where your specialists lie?

Tracy Walker (01:14.74)
Okay, no problem. So I’m here to talk about safeguarding and that’s because I think that my entire career safeguarding has been a central element of what I’ve been doing.

So, probably no surprise to some with me making that statement that I work in early years and in education and then moved over into FE. So, safeguarding has been at the centre of my role, whether that was working as a manager in a nursery and being the safeguarding lead to working in the local authority as part of the Sure Start programmes going way back.

and taking responsibility for safeguarding in that environment as well, working very closely with other professionals, especially the social workers. So I suppose for me, when I moved into FE, it was a natural progression to still pick up that safeguarding and to be working as that safeguarding lead with independent training providers. I do think once safeguarding gets under your skin, it tends to stay there and it gets of that.

Mark Simpkins (02:21.005)
Hehehe.

Tracy Walker (02:22.32)
addiction almost to actually wanting to make that difference and you always get hooked into it. So it was a natural progression for me to work as a safeguarding lead in FE, to lead on safeguarding through off-stead inspections etc.

Mark Simpkins (02:40.44)
Great, thank you so much. and absolutely that that’s the topic of today. It’s quite regularly one of the reasons why people visit my website. They can obviously see my kind of background in safeguarding, having been a lead and been a governor for safeguarding too. And it’s clearly a non-negotiable essentially in this line of work. And yet still so many businesses and stuff out there don’t

don’t get it right. And, you know, that’s kind of what we’re going to delve into today in relation to safeguarding. So I’m hoping that obviously by the end of the pod today, listeners can take away little things that they can go and implement and just, guess more than anything, kind of, you know, double check and kind of align what we’re saying as part of this pod to their own practices and their own organizations and just double check that they’re

they’re doing everything that they needed to because although safeguarding is complex in certain kind of disclosures and instances that also for me, I think a lot of it is it’s it’s a matter of common sense and it’s no secret. It’s you know, if you if you can get the right processes and the right people and the right commitment into an organization, then that that’s really what you need in the fundamentals of what you need.

But let’s start with, you I guess you’ve been in FE a long time. I’ve been in FE a long time. You know, how does how how safeguarding kind of changed over the years? Do you think in the approach to safeguarding in FE?

Tracy Walker (04:23.084)
I don’t think I’m just going to start off by saying I don’t think the changes are just in FE. think changes.

Mark Simpkins (04:27.352)
No fair, yeah

Tracy Walker (04:29.144)
guarding across and it’s not getting any easier, is it? You know, as we learn more, there is more expectations. We also know that thresholds for partnership working have gone higher and higher. So that support has got less, the expectations have got higher and the needs of our learners have increased hugely. So I think it is a highly complex area.

I was also just interested in what you said about commitment, Mark, because I think commitment underpins it.

very often you know I’ve been asked how many hours have you been spending on safeguarding? I don’t get paid for when you are safeguarding and this is the same whether when I was in early years, when I’ve been in FE, it’s that bit of the job that is absolutely vital, hugely time consuming and yet on a purely profit basis we don’t see anything for it other than knowing we’ve done the best for our children or our learners, our vulnerable adults.

So I think that commitment does need to be there. And I just wanted to make that point. I think the challenges, you know, we’ve moved into this online world. Look at us now. A lot of training providers have gone to blended approaches with online teaching. We’re using technology so much and that has opened up a whole new world of risk.

Mark Simpkins (05:42.635)
Mmm, absolutely.

Mark Simpkins (05:58.904)
you

Tracy Walker (05:59.528)
safety that we need to be, you know, keeping our learners safe, children safe, not only in the physical world, but in the virtual world. And that virtual world can feel very alien to some of us. And actually the risks that are there, I think we are still only really uncovering in a lot of ways. You know, that’s a new experience for a lot of us. So there’s all that to consider.

And when we bring the prevent duty in as well, which is also a big part of our safeguarding. And again, that just keeps escalating. It keeps going up. You know, we’ve now got filtering and monitoring expectations of all our devices for small provider. How is that managed? What are the expectations? We’ve got to have the IT skills to be able to protect and where are those coming from?

where are we getting that infrastructure in place to make sure our learners are safe. It can be amazing to break down barriers to learning by loading laptops, but actually we’re opening up a whole new world there within safeguarding of how we’re keeping them safe online.

Mark Simpkins (07:17.686)
Yeah, absolutely. And like you say, since COVID times, is a lot more popular and a lot more providers are out there just doing purely virtual analysis as well. And so yeah, you’re absolutely right to pick up on those points. kind of want to, when you kind of started talking about that bit, what I want to do and where I want to start with this is around UCEDD infrastructure and staffing. And I guess fundamentally, as a training provider,

let’s say, because that’s where most of the listeners and that’s where my background stuff come from. In terms of, you know, who’s doing the safeguarding role? What does that kind of structure of that team look like? Talk to me about, know, your thoughts on, you know, so, you know, we’ve got a new, let’s say we’ve got a brand new trading provider, you know, where do you go? Where do you start in terms of safeguarding and putting together a team?

Tracy Walker (08:14.456)
think the word team is really important because I fundamentally believe one of my real deep values from all my years of experience in safeguarding is that it can’t be down to one person. Safeguarding is never ever black and white. You can do all the training that’s out there but no safeguarding incident is going to come and present itself to you with a sign that says this is safeguarding, you need to implement your procedures. And I think that is the hardest bit for safeguarding.

It’s knowing is that a safeguarding concern? Is it not?

Mark Simpkins (08:49.944)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Walker (08:50.432)
am I looking at this because we’re all subjective, we’re all human and actually we can see things from very different viewpoints. So that analysis of situations requires often more than one person to think. So I would always have a team around safeguarding no matter how small the company is, you need those other people there to have that input. We are held to account on our

decisions and our rationale. So in order to make sure that is effective, you need to be able to share that with somebody else and have that overview. And you know, I know working with you, Mark, you know, to have those safeguarding leads operationally and then at director level and then at governance level, provides that accountability. It provides that reassurance really, because it can be really lonely being a

guarding lead, you’ve been presented with this information and you’ve got to make a judgment and a decision and that is a big responsibility for anybody to take.

I know the training is there and that’s other thing isn’t it about getting staff who are experienced in safeguarding and trained because again I don’t believe you can have one without the other. Training is great but if you’ve not had no experience it’s really hard to put that in practice and we need the ongoing training because things keep changing as they do in all areas don’t they so

So it’s having that expertise within the team initially and identifying that. And then somebody who is willing, because it takes up a lot of time. Somebody’s got to have and be given that capacity.

Mark Simpkins (10:34.412)
hehe

Tracy Walker (10:41.87)
that when that safeguarding call comes in, you can leave everything else and focus on that and give it due attention and the action that is needed. And again, that’s probably why it’s worth having a team rather than just one because you can’t schedule it in. You can’t say, you know, that’s coming, I’ve got no time until next Monday. I’ll leave it till then. It has got to be dealt with then and there.

It is time critical and one of the things I’m going to look at is the efficiency of your responses and how quickly you can actually act on something. I’m not sure if I answered your question there.

Mark Simpkins (11:20.162)
Yeah. No, you did. No, I can’t, I can’t agree with you enough. Like you say, and I was going to use the exact words you did in terms of it being lonely because you know, one safeguarding case will be the same as the next. And quite often you’ve got to make decisions and you need a team around you to bounce off of, say, do you agree? You need a, you almost need a weight in numbers. Don’t you just to reassurance that actually what I’m suggesting we do now is, the right thing.

And yeah, waiting numbers. also find that to correct me if I’m wrong, to have that kind of that mixture of gender in your designated safeguarding team as well. Having a mixture of males and females that are able to because obviously, you know, there are instances of disclosures that come through where, you know, they may ask or request one or the other specifically because they’re more comfortable dealing and talking to either a male or female. So

I think it’s worth kind of raising that point. And you also mentioned training, which of course is absolutely fundamental. I think it’s worthwhile saying that designated safeguarding leads need to have a designated safeguarding lead training. And I think when I speak to clients, I kind of give them kind of gold, silver, and kind of bronze option, because you’ll find that there are training providers out there, kind of e-learning ones like high-speed training and those type of places where you can do designated safeguarding lead training.

for minimal cost for a couple of hours. And yes, it gives you that certificate, whether in my opinion, it gives you enough confidence to go into that role with that level of knowledge, I would, you know, I would debate. But then there’s kind of gold standard ones out there as well, you know, likes of the NSPCC who, you know, who have a couple of days and that’s what I did many moons ago. And, you know, you kind of come out of those sessions, I think, feel a little bit more like

If this seriously comes and I get a disclosure like this, I’m equipped enough to deal with it. Would you agree?

Tracy Walker (13:26.818)
Definitely, I think it’s about training that makes it real. Because it’s the reality you’ve got to manage. And as I said, I think the hardest thing is actually interpreting it, working out what the core issue is, what are the risks and what can I do to mitigate them? And I think yes, the know, the online training, the lower levels is good if you’ve got somebody who’s really experienced and knowledge and it’s perhaps a refresher.

Mark Simpkins (13:30.39)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Simpkins (13:40.813)
Yeah.

Tracy Walker (13:55.298)
I think where you’ve got somebody who needs that confidence and as you said, the decisions you make can have a huge impact on another person. They’re not decisions to be taken lightly. I’ve had to make decisions that have impacted on people’s careers. You are talking that level at times and also people’s lives.

Mark Simpkins (14:19.244)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Walker (14:19.662)
If we are a critical situation, that one call you make could save somebody’s life or if you don’t make it, it could have horrendous consequences. I think any training where it’s brought to life for you and the greyness can be discussed. For me, it’s all that grey in the middle. It’s the safeguarding world.

Mark Simpkins (14:32.663)
Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (14:45.804)
Yeah

Yeah.

Tracy Walker (14:48.33)
and you’ve got to be able to explore that grey bit.

Mark Simpkins (14:52.322)
Yeah, when we are approach that I’ve used in the past in terms of training, we often just, know, if you’ve got members in your team, we put them on the designated safeguarding lead training regardless, almost because you never know, you never know when your designated safeguarding lead may leave your business, right? And then you’d have to go through a period of training and handover anyway. And if you are

If you’ve got a team of officers, let’s say underneath or you’ve got a deputy or whatever, you know, what’s the harm in putting them obviously, other than financially and time resource, why would you not put them through that same training so that if one does leave, if the lead just ends up leaving your organization, you’ve got, you know, one or two maybe already aligned to be able to step up. and you’re right in terms of willingness, it’s difficult.

Because I don’t think, know, unless you’ve got a passion for safeguarding, you’re not going to hold your hand up and say, yes, please add that me into the team, please, I’ll take on that extra responsibility. Like you say, you don’t financially necessarily get any more money, you know, per month for doing the role. So you really, you know, when you’re, when you’re, you know, looking for people to join that team, you need to have willingness. And you need to have the right kind of character and people that’s in that team.

Tracy Walker (16:08.78)
Yeah, definitely. know, I think they are key, aren’t they? They’ve got that relationship with all the development coaches, tutors, assessors, whatever we call it, those face-to-face people, and potentially learners and other partners and employers. They’re all part of that team in some way or other.

Mark Simpkins (16:20.982)
Hehe.

Tracy Walker (16:33.454)
So your safeguarding leaders got to fit into that. They’ve got to have those skills to have those really difficult conversations at times.

Mark Simpkins (16:44.502)
Yeah.

Tracy Walker (16:45.094)
and to work out that proportionality within it, what is a proportionate response in this instance, how much do I need to be doing, but how much actually do I need to empower others to do, because again, empowering somebody who can empower others to actually act and embed, because that all comes part of that safeguarding culture.

which we need to be providing for all our learners and for all our staff to be within. And obviously we can’t forget safe recruitment. Very often your safeguarding lead will also be leading in safe recruitment, which is another dimension on the role of the safeguarding lead, because you are involved there with the staff right from the very start, right from the point of, you know, designing the applications and the notices to go out.

Mark Simpkins (17:31.853)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Walker (17:39.466)
and making sure that safeguarding message is consistent which requires further specific training and skills and availability you know so is everybody on your who does recruitment safe recruitment trained or are you relying on one person to sit in on every interview

strategically they are decisions that have got to be made as well as maintaining your single central record you know it is multifaceted isn’t it the role it is not just about necessarily just dealing with safeguarding concerns that coming in

Mark Simpkins (18:17.208)
Absolutely. Yeah, I want to come back to that culture piece in a bit. Well, I just want to highlight something really important that you mentioned right at the start of the pod was the structure. You know, if you get that team and stuff together and you put the training in that role of governor, that role of safeguarding governor who, know, for me doesn’t necessarily need to be day to day there all the time and in your meetings, which we’ll come on to in a minute. But

you know, even as a designated lead, even with your team, if you need that person to go to that extra layer of challenge, scrutiny and support, they become fundamental as well. And quite often, I know sort of advisory boards or governing boards will have that person that they can go to. And, you know, as a structure, it’s absolutely fundamental that, you know, ITPs do have that that that extra layer of governance to.

Tracy Walker (19:10.018)
Yeah, definitely. And actually, they need to be really well qualified as well. Because as you said, they’re not providing that critical challenge is really important. You know that again, that that accountability isn’t it. And having somebody that can challenge you can

you know, ask the right questions, can oversee what you are doing. And also, I think there’s a role there in being there almost in a supervisory capacity, because as a safeguarding lead, you can be dealing with some pretty tough stuff.

that actually we take it off the shoulders of our frontline staff, our tutors, assessors, because we don’t want them switching off at the end of the day, going home, carrying the weight of something. So we lift it off them. But actually as a safeguarding lead, you can only carry so much. Where does that then go? Because we may need that supervision. We may need that reassurance we’ve done the right thing, but also just to be able to talk something through. This is what

Mark Simpkins (20:07.298)
Mm.

Tracy Walker (20:17.006)
thinking this is what I was doing. And I’ve had various examples of that from, you know, I was really lucky in one point I had a social worker who was in that role and actually led on child protection. So to have supervision with somebody with that caliber, he was there to challenge.

but also to help escalate because I think that’s one of the big frustrations in the sector at the moment is these thresholds are so high. We can be saying we are really concerned and other agents are saying they don’t meet threshold. And sometimes I think a big part of our responsibility is not just to refer, it’s actually to challenge and make sure that referral gets heard and to be an advocate for that person, that vulnerable adult, whoever they may be.

because there might not be anybody else who’s actually shouting for them.

Mark Simpkins (21:14.134)
No, absolutely. yeah, all of these things. I I think this is as we go through this pod, you’ll realize the extent of all the plates that you need to be juggling with, right? So we’ve already mentioned safer recruitment and the processes that you need for that, the policy that you need for that, the training that you need for that, and the time and effort that needs to go in, right? Then you have your SCR, your single central record. For all of you listening out there, you’ll need an SCR for off-sted inspection.

They will want to see it. Your SCR. Just give us Tracy, just a quick overview. SCR. What’s on an SCR?

Tracy Walker (21:49.336)
So single central record is really your record of how you are ensuring safe staff. So certainly your DBS numbers, references, employment, suitability to work in the UK, qualifications, everything there. And I know from experience, it is the first thing off the road track. Any gaps?

Mark Simpkins (22:10.208)
Yeah, absolutely. So.

Tracy Walker (22:13.834)
then you are opening yourself up to a lot of It’s one of the easiest things to get right just by making sure you don’t overlook it. How are you updating it? How are you making sure? Because the other big bugbear I have, Mark, and I will say it now, is DBS checks. We put a lot of store in the DBS check, but it is only valid on the day it was done.

Mark Simpkins (22:24.863)
Absolutely.

Tracy Walker (22:41.496)
So what are your other procedures? If something happens a month later, two months later, how are you gonna know? In relation to staff. So I do a bit of a bugbear about DBS and we cannot, we need to have them, but we must not rely on them solely. Again, it goes back to the safeguarding culture and make sure everything is there.

Mark Simpkins (22:44.076)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Simpkins (23:01.676)
Sure. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. So say for recruitment, SCR, you’ve then got your team that need to be trained, obviously. And then I would say then next thing, reporting. OK, so obviously there needs to be a function, a process, something that’s watertight, something that is, you know, can be confidential and that kind of line of things. I mean, there’s lots of ways.

that this could be done, but what in your opinion, what has worked for you in the past, Tracy? What’s the simplest? What’s the best way?

Tracy Walker (23:37.858)
think it’s got to make sense for your organization, if I’m honest. It’s having a system that’s accessible for those that need to have access to it.

it’s having a system that when officer come or when you need to go back on a case, you can very easily find the information and the information gives you what you need. Now that it should easily be able to give you an overview of who you are worried about, who you are looking, you know, working with. And it’s that,

Having information that is clear and concise and accurate. How would you know if there’s been four low level concerns from one learner? How are you tracking that they’ve come in over maybe an 18 month period? Your records need to show that one on its own wasn’t a big deal, but actually I’m getting a pattern.

I would always recommend if you’ve got a significant case that you do chronologies. think chronologies are amazing. Yes, they can be a bit of a ball ache and time consuming, but actually they’re really useful for showing you a pattern. So I would always do that. I think the other biggest tip I’ve got is whenever you are presented with a concern, document your considerations and rationale.

So what information have you got? Make sure that is clearly documented. Actually as close to what those person’s words were. Often I would get concerns come through from the tutors. They would document exactly what that learner had said to them, what they were worried about. My role was to analyze that. And in doing that analysis, I need to document my analysis.

Tracy Walker (25:26.222)
I need to document what is it that I’m worried about, what are my concerns, what are my considerations and then what is my rationale because then I’m leaving a very clear trail for anybody else to pick up or for me to look back on that says this was what the bit we were worried about and this is why we made the decision that we did. I’m then starting to get some justification evidenced then as to why I’ve done it and thinking that cycle through.

And I think keeping that record up to date, but also keeping all parties involved. If I’m working with a tutor, I would expect them to challenge me on my decision. They know that learner far better than I do. So how am I evidencing that in my records? And we used to do where the record used to go backwards and forwards between me and the tutor. And I would get their agreement that they agreed with my actions, or if not, I would document that they didn’t and we would go down a different path.

The same going up the ladder, up into the director safeguarding. So it needs to go both ways. It needs to go to tutors, it needs to go up. It needs to involve employers, know, evidencing that employer contract, contact, because you cannot safeguard in isolation. I think that’s the other thing my years of experience have taught me. You can’t do it on your own, especially when you’re looking with vulnerable adults.

or that 16 to 18 year old age group, which is a real challenge in the sector, you need to be working with others and that needs to be evidenced. And I would tell anybody keep copies of everything and file it, track it, but have those files ready so that it should be, anybody can pick that up. Know what you’re doing, know what’s happened and know what the next steps are.

because as safeguarding lead, if you’re suddenly off ill or have an accident, somebody’s got to step straight in and finish that. And ultimately your records could end up in court. And I think we tend to gloss over that bit as well.

Mark Simpkins (27:35.276)
Yeah, I mean, that’s not to make anybody nervous and stuff about it, but I think you’re really key, you know, in terms of you need to have a process that’s really clear, that’s really easy to follow, really easy to navigate something then that also then is capturing all the information that’s required that captures progress, right? Quite often, you know, when a disclosure coming is given to a case handler or somebody as member of the team that’s been allocated and quite often,

Sometimes those different members of your team perhaps have a specialty because quite often in the past where we’ve looked at trends, you could say arguably, you know, mental health is really high up. Okay. So you might have one or two of your team that are mental health first aiders, you know, that are trained up in that particularly. And so if it’s one of those, you could perhaps give one of them.

to case handle, you know, on the flip side, it might be domestic abuse, which is another one that somebody has done some specific training in use mentioned prevent earlier. And you might have a prevent coordinator who specifically for those kind of cases. So, you know, I think having that specialty within your team that have that additional training in those areas, particularly in the ones, you know, the topics or the disclosure that are trending or that you have the most volume of is a good idea, right. And like you say,

Tracy Walker (28:51.096)
Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (28:53.004)
keeping on top of contact and dates and progress and things like that. And, you know, kind of old school Word documents and Excel, even though obviously they can still be used, they’re quite difficult. I mean, more recently, like Microsoft Planner has great, you know, tools that you can use where you can, you know, really keep a log and obviously secure it so that only a designated safeguarding team can access it and things like that. I think it’s just fundamental that you have all of those tools and you utilize them in the best way.

Tracy Walker (29:21.388)
Yeah, definitely. I don’t think there’s one system, I think it’s whatever works for your organization, if I’m honest, and that people are, you know, confident to use. We don’t want any more.

Mark Simpkins (29:24.629)
No.

Tracy Walker (29:34.37)
barriers going in the way that because we don’t know what we’re doing with the system, we don’t record it. You don’t break down that as much as we can because it’s complicated enough without adding other things in. So it’s anything that’s going to be leave you with a, you know, a clear trail and as a safeguarding lead, something that you can monitor and come back to because I think that’s the other thing.

some safeguarding can take a while to resolve, especially if it’s a lower level concern and actually as a safeguarding lead you’ve got to keep on track of that which when you’ve got everything else going off it can easily get pushed back.

So I think it’s having, you know, those regular safeguarding meetings with your safeguarding team to keep things alive and keep things fresh. You know, I think one of the worst things is to have loads and loads of safeguarding cases open and none of them actually get closed. And you think, well, you know, what’s going on here? Because actually there should be a beginning and an end. We can always open up with another concern, but actually that piece of work needs to come to a conclusion.

for you to know that that learner is safe. I know I always used to have two levels. I had my safeguarding and I had my vulnerable learners. And I think again, just identifying your learners who were vulnerable, who are going to be vulnerable to safeguarding, to poor progress, poor mental health.

helps you as a safeguarding need, you know, just be aware of who you need to be watching as well. And I might move learners out of safeguarding, but actually I know and the tutor knows and the management team know that they’re still vulnerable. So we’re just going to keep that close eye on them, even though there’s no direct safeguarding work happening at that time.

Mark Simpkins (31:33.442)
And I think that’s really key. I’m so glad you brought up the meetings because again, you don’t want this. If you’ve got a team, make sure that they meet, make sure that they have discussions about the disclosures. You can invite guest speakers in too, as long as they’re not obviously involved in the disclosure piece, which is just obviously for the team, they can come in and they can add value to those meetings. But the communication is absolutely key.

And so, you know, I don’t know what your suggestion would be, but at least kind of on a monthly basis, you have that reoccurring safeguarding team meeting where, you know, your first agenda item is to go through disclosures, perhaps, like you say, agree to close these off, give updates, whether there’s external agencies and things that are involved so that everybody’s in the know and everyone can go, have you thought about this? Because let’s face it, you know, two heads are better than one, three is better than two, four is better than three, right?

Those meetings are minuted and you have a set agenda, again, will become fundamental when it comes to an Austin inspection,

Tracy Walker (32:29.516)
Yes.

Tracy Walker (32:35.042)
Yeah, definitely, you know, they will ask to see them. I mean, I think the frequency monthly works depending on how many referrals you’re having coming through and how many concerns that there are. You may at times need to increase that frequency if you’ve got a big case happening. I know we’ve had periods of time where we’ve had to meet weekly because there’s been some big stuff happening that we needed to get together.

Mark Simpkins (32:56.535)
Mm.

Tracy Walker (33:04.894)
on ongoing but as a general rule of thumb I wouldn’t want to leave any longer than a month because I think the other thing is

If there’s no safeguarding concerns coming through, I’m equally as worried, not more so. You know, I think it’s important that the safeguarding lead analyzes all their data and information and finds out, you know, is there anybody, you know, who’s front facing a tutor assessor, development coach who isn’t putting any referrals through? It may be she’s got the most amazing caseload, but statistics tell us otherwise and actually

is there an issue there and that you know there’s something that she’s just not picking them up so I think you know that meeting monthly meeting to say actually we haven’t had any this month what do we think is going on is that a cause for concern in itself is also worth considering and as you go into the role you will notice patterns

There is some months that potentially, I know September, October have always been horrific, inundated and I think it’s after summer period and then it sort of equals out again. But we know, you know, like domestic abuse that you mentioned, we know there are trigger points in the year.

and we know when that is likely to be more prevalent and we have to be aware of it a bit more. Same with mental health.

Mark Simpkins (34:38.944)
Yeah, and it’s an excellent point in terms of the evaluation and analysis of the trends, everything that’s going on that should form part of those monthly meetings and also then be reported to governors because that is just as important that safeguarded as a topic on those minutes and as part of those, you know, and as a governor and somebody who’s responsible for safeguarding, you’d like to know you don’t need the ins and outs, but I’d like to know how many disclosures are currently open, how many

are involved in external agencies. What are the current trends? Have we got more health or mental health issues? What are the exposures coming in? And then what do we then go on and do? What are you as a team going on and doing about it? And that can come in many other forms, which brings me onto the next bit. I’m just wearing a bit of time. Amongst all of this, you’ve then got safeguarding basically out in the field. And what I mean by that is

tutor training, embedding within the curriculum, ensuring that learners know who the designated safeguarding team are, how to contact them, all of those kind of things. So that’s probably possibly another half an hour discussion, right? But I mean, obviously that needs to form part of those monthly discussions and tell us just a little bit, I guess, some good practices or good ideas that relate to those kind of things,

Tracy Walker (35:51.694)
you

Tracy Walker (36:04.792)
think, I mean again, there’s so much you’ve covered there Mark. Making sure your frontline staff are equipped to be able to go out there and to identify, be curious, that’s that big buzzword at the moment, isn’t it? Curiosity and vigilance and being able to ask the right questions. And I think I could talk for ages just about that bit.

Mark Simpkins (36:08.476)
Hahaha

Mark Simpkins (36:26.498)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy Walker (36:30.936)
But think also it’s keeping our staff safe. Yes, as an apprenticeship provider, we have to teach learners how to keep themselves safe as well as safeguard. And coming in the education early years sector, we have to teach it as part of the curriculum as well. So it becomes very multifaceted in that regards. But making sure learners are in an appropriate learning environment, that they are safe in the work.

workplace comes down to fundamentals and you know I think good practice is I have done risk assessments around workplaces where they are going into a workplace where there is a higher level of risk such as you know special needs school or some residential care homes there is a heightened level of risk and we’ve got a duty that our apprentices and our staff going in are safe.

and that there is appropriate measures taken to keep them safe. I think then it is with learners we are talking about safeguarding in every review, at every contact aren’t you really, about how they can keep themselves safe. Let’s go back to our online world. You know, how many people have been a victim of fraud, of fake news, of you know, their data being used, that online safety.

keeping themselves safe online, but keeping themselves physically safe as well. Bearing in mind, we often have that 16 to 18 year old age group where actually, yes, they do need to think about how they’re gonna get home safely from work when the clock’s changing, it’s dark. Is it safe for them to walk down the street holding their mobile phone when we know in that area that there is a high number of people having their phones taken off them and being assaulted?

to get their mobile phone, which leads us to needing to know the local information, which again is another complexity when you are a national provider that needs local knowledge. And I think that in itself is a huge part of that safeguarding leads role and part of that training with those people who work in those localities to actually be able to disseminate and talk to learners about local.

Tracy Walker (38:58.796)
risks, local trends and what their world looks like for them.

could go on.

Mark Simpkins (39:06.626)
No, you’re absolutely right. And, you know, I guess just to kind of provide context to that, you know, fundamental things is that it’s I mean, you mentioned, obviously, in early years in health and social care, it’s naturally embedded as part of that curriculum, right? It’s much more difficult. Well, I say that, you know, in digital, you could link to the online safety side and GDPR and those kind of things. But, you know, there are some sectors where

it’s a little bit more difficult to embed in. But you do need to embed it. mean, all said who will come, they will ask questions of employers, they will ask questions of learners. What do you know about safeguarding? What does it mean to you? How do you get in touch? Who do you get in touch with? How do you get in touch with them? So those are kind of like the basic kind of fundamentals, right? And then they’ll be asked questions about how it links to their sector and how it links to their organization.

You know those kind of things and then the next layer is absolutely what you say what’s happening locally What are the local risks to you? And they need to know all of this stuff and so, know as part of your requirement you need to deliver it as part of your and embedded as part of your curriculum and in order to do that your tutors assessors trainers, whatever they are need to be confident and knowledge enough to deliver it and so

Tracy Walker (40:26.668)
Yes.

Mark Simpkins (40:28.502)
You know, it’s huge. And I think, you one of the things I would recommend, and we talked about structure and people is that, you know, if you’ve got designated safeguarding people in your team, you do have people who deliver as part of it. Because when you come to that conversation in your meetings about curriculum, what’s hot, what trends are there, you know, what information and communication do we need to get out? There’ll be probably best place to come back with that kind of information. The kind of last piece I want to kind of move on to is that communication piece.

Tracy and you know because I know and I have seen some fantastic things in terms of communication things like newsletters things like you know whatsapp messages and text messages and things that go out to learners that are prompting and giving them links and information and resources and you know what some of the best things you’ve seen out there.

Tracy Walker (41:17.614)
Okay, so I think we’ve got a lot of the e-learning platforms now provide a platform that if you’ve got learners logging in regularly, employers logging in to have information on there that comes up every time so that it’s there, it’s in their face as soon as they get it because I think one of the big things is if they are only told once at induction, they are gonna forget.

It is repetition, isn’t it? Repetition, repetition, repetition. A simple thing actually that worked really well was sending out a poster to every workplace and asking them to put it up in their staff room. And that had a huge impact because the employers then saw it or if they didn’t, they went, I’ve got my poster here. I’ll just have a look. So actually something visual that wasn’t on screen that was just up there worked, worked well, quite eye catching.

I think don’t lose the information in the midst of everything else that you send. I think it has to quite stand out. think other than that, know, put faces to names, photos help as well, don’t they? You know, make it a bit more personable. But generally, your referrals are going to come through your tutors. So it is making sure that those procedures are very clear, but that learners know they can talk about that safeguarding.

think the other big thing is the mental health and then being able to access support. And I think a lot of us are aware that anything can trigger anybody. I think as you get older, you realize everybody’s got a backstory and we don’t know what it is. So I think the other thing I’ve seen that’s worked really well is in every teaching session, there is a trigger point slide. And what this trigger point slide does is that a learner can click on it independently.

So the tutor doesn’t know, nobody else in that group session would know. And it takes them through to additional resources to support mental health and wellbeing. If they are being triggered in that moment, simple breathing exercises to do. And of course, the contact details of mental health first aiders, as you’ve talked about, and the safeguarding team. And I think, again, that’s important for the staff.

Tracy Walker (43:38.464)
as well as it is for the learners that we’re working with because we have to support both and actually, you know, equally as important, you know, for them to have somebody to talk to as much as a learner. So I think that’s worked really well. The posters worked really well. The banners, the text messages, as you said, but again, lot of it comes down to knowing local information. We’ve known, you know, when we’ve had the riots, which weren’t that long ago.

unfortunately, you know, our tutors in that area was able to contact every one of those learners in that area and make them aware and tell them, know, give them some general tips on how to keep themselves safe because we knew there was unrest in that particular area. So that very targeted communications, I think, can work really well. But generally, any way you can to keep getting the message out.

Mark Simpkins (44:21.76)
Mm.

Tracy Walker (44:35.522)
because the last thing you want is for officer to ask a learner or an employer do you know what the safeguarding procedures are? Do you know who you would contact? And they say no.

Mark Simpkins (44:45.538)
Yeah, and I think that the last point I want to put on that is that it’s depending on the level of apprenticeship standards that you’re delivering, there will be an expectation that those that are, you know, working at level four or level five, you know, higher than that, that there will be increased knowledge that, you know, it will be about the management of it will be about leading on. So, you know, when you’re asking your questions at reviews or whatever it may be,

You can’t just keep repeating, do you know what safeguarding is? Do you know the, mean, yes, that’s important, of course, but depending on what their level is, would depend on how much you need to challenge and have applied learning.

Tracy Walker (45:26.658)
And it’s having it in a meaningful context for that learner, isn’t it? You know, it shouldn’t just be a routine question that, again, I’ve got this again. You know, if you can put it into a meaningful context, then they’re gonna sit up and take note. You know, again, I’m just gonna go back to prevent slightly. One of the questions I used to like asking was, you know, do you feel you are at risk of radicalization? And I’m no, no, no, no, not me. It’s okay.

what social media do you use? And then we’d go through some statistics. Actually that wake up, my goodness, okay. But actually we are all vulnerable, we are all open and actually we all need to take steps to safeguard ourselves. But it is within that, you know, within that context of their job role, as you said, and the level.

of their study because I think we can be guilty of almost patronising those higher level learners and not stretching and challenge. When you are working with level six, level seven, as I’ve done, you know, that is something I was very conscious of. What does that safeguarding world look like to them with the responsibilities they’ve got in their role?

Mark Simpkins (46:25.772)
Sure. Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (46:43.145)
Yeah, absolutely. And the last kind of little, you know, good practice, I think, thing for me is, is the the use of that scenarios. It’s that applied learning. It’s very similar, I guess, a bit to maths and English where, you know, if you know the core skills or how to add, fine, you know, if somebody asked you what was two plus two, you’d be able to answer right. But

If you then have to put that into a question or into a scenario, which functional skills mass kind of does is then applying that kind of skill in your answer. And so, you know, rather than asking direct questions of what have you learned about safeguarding and so on and so forth, if you can give them a, you know, if you can give them a scenario and make it seasonal, make it kind of, you if you’re asking questions in the summer and related to summer holidays or in.

you know, at Christmas and you can relate it to, you know, being out in the dark, like you mentioned earlier about the clocks going and stuff like that, you know, make it relevant to the learner and the employer and the industry. And they’re much more likely to to engage. Right. But, you know, I guess before I’m going to I’m going to bring this to a close, I realize we’ve got a much longer than I said we would, you know, that we could go on a lot longer in this for this, Tracy. I don’t know. We’ve talked we’ve covered a lot.

Is there anything else before we close that you think you really like to raise and give advice to the listeners before we finish?

Tracy Walker (48:09.922)
I think we have touched on an awful lot, Mark. I think one of the biggest things is, you know, don’t forget the low level concerns. You know, you’ve got to work out as an organization what your policies and procedures are going to be for low level as well, but they are important. Don’t forget them. Don’t brush them under the carpet. And actually you documenting of your low level concerns is as important as your high level because it shows that you are being vigilant.

being aware and you are putting things in place to support those vulnerable learners. So be aware of that and I mentioned you know timely responses and working with others. I think one of the biggest roles as a safeguarding lead is building relationships with other agencies. Again really difficult if you are national and you’ve got to really tune into local but when we talked about that team that might be a consideration.

there. You know, if you’ve got safeguarding leaves dotted around, then they’ve got their own geographical area to build those relationships. We know in partnership working, the relationships are key. You get on so much better if you’ve already got that relationship.

And as I said, you can’t safeguard on your own. You are going to need to link to prevent coordinators. You are going to need to link to local authority officers. You’re going to need to link to your local social care or your mash team, whatever it is. And some simple things that can stop you doing that is like not having the learner’s full address. I’ve had situations where I’m like, are they county or they city?

it can make a whole difference to that referral process and actually the time it takes to work that out shouldn’t be a thing. So having that clear, clear documentation at that point and thinking about that locality. And we’ve also not mentioned whistleblowing, which is also a huge part of the safeguarding, but perhaps for another one while…

Mark Simpkins (50:13.374)
Another day, yeah, absolutely. I just remembered one more as well before we close. I’d always recommend an annual safeguarding report. So I know that colleges do this a lot and I’ve implemented this in a few clients and stuff that we have. So all of you should be obviously doing kind of self-assessment and that type of thing. But, know, annually it’s worthwhile just taking a whole look at the last 12 months of safeguarding.

Tracy Walker (50:21.122)
Yes, of course.

Mark Simpkins (50:38.888)
number of disclosures, what the team has changed and looked like, and what you’ve done, what you’ve implemented, what training has been done, what trends there are, so that you can move forward into the next kind of academic year with some more targeted action. So absolutely would recommend an annual safeguarding report, and any of you out there that haven’t got one, if you want to get in touch with me, I’ve got a template that I can share with you. So if you want to do that, then by all means, get in touch.

Tracy Walker (51:07.006)
said really like the safeguarding report it gives them all the information in one clear document so that you know they haven’t got to go finding the information and you don’t feel like you’ve been interrogated for too long

Mark Simpkins (51:19.52)
Yeah. And I think if we just embody everything that we’ve talked about, Tracy, I know I wanted to touch on it, but I think it’s very clear that if you’re doing all of these things, you’re going to create a culture of safeguarding. And when Ofsted come, if they see all of these things immediately, that confidence level that it’s being addressed and you have that culture of it just basically just puts it to bed.

Tracy Walker (51:45.986)
Yeah, definitely. agree. I think the culture is everything that we’ve talked about. You know, right down from attitudes strategically to investment into it, to having the right people and it being part of every learner’s journey from start to finish. It’s not a one off. It’s an ongoing conversation.

Mark Simpkins (52:08.514)
Great, so thank you, Tracy, for your time. Like I say, I know we’ve got a lot longer than I said we would. So I’d be here before we close, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to come and do this pod. Like I say, it could be a lot longer and maybe you’ll come back again and we’ll tackle some of the other areas that we haven’t managed to do in this recording. But thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.

Tracy Walker (52:36.608)
No problem, thank you Mark.

Mark Simpkins (52:38.54)
Thank you. So that’s a wrap for today’s edition of FE Gold. I hope you’ve gained some really valuable tips and inspiration to continuously improve your provision. And I hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please tell your connections, tell your friends, tell your colleagues, and that will help the show grow. As always, for any personalized quality solutions or if you want to let me know of a topic you’d like me to cover on one of these pods, then please do get in touch with me. You can do that by LinkedIn.

or you can contact me on email through www.symkinsfequalityconsulting.co.uk. This has been FB Gold with me, your host and with Tracy. Thanks for stopping by.

Tracy Walker (53:22.306)
Thank you. Bye.