From 3 to 2 with Sara Morton

Mark Simpkins (00:06.519)
Welcome to this episode of FE Gold, your source for real talk and real solutions in the world of further education. And I’m your host, Mark Simpkins, and here to bring insights along with my guests that take your provision to the next level. And today, FE Gold welcomes Sara Morton. Sara is head of quality at Lifetime Training, the UK’s

largest training provider. Hi, Sarah, how you doing?

Sara (00:37.12)
No Mark, I’m good thank you.

Mark Simpkins (00:39.463)
I’m so excited and delighted to have you on the show today, which we will be discussing a topic that will always be in the minds of every training provider out there in the world today. But firstly, before we kind of get into the nuts and bolts, tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about lifetime training.

Sara (01:00.141)
Sure, as you say, so I’m Sarah Morton, Head of Quality at Lifetime Training. I’ve been at Lifetime for 20 years this year, so worked through the company. The company started off really small with around 50 employees and has now grown over those kind of 20 years into being the largest training provider. We predominantly look in the public service sector with our apprenticeships.

So, working with apprentices in care, hospitality, retail, active leisure, business and management professionals. So a big array of sectors really that we cover. It is mainly apprenticeships that we work within as well.

Mark Simpkins (01:50.669)
Yeah, so those listeners who have delved into my kind of past will know that my very early days of my career was at Lifetime. And I remember all those years ago in Berkeley Square where it was literally a handful of us that were there. And it’s amazing to see where Lifetime is today. I want to say, first and foremost, 20 years, wow, that’s, you

Sara (02:00.681)
Yep.

Mark Simpkins (02:18.049)
Congratulations on that milestone. So I don’t think there’s many of us, particularly in this sector, that will ever reach that milestone with one provider. So well done. Lifetime obviously doing something right to keep it staff. So yeah, so today we’re gonna discuss obviously a big moment in Lifetime’s kind of quality improvement journey. Rather than me kind of introduce the topic,

Sara (02:26.368)
But thanks.

Mark Simpkins (02:46.977)
Perhaps you could give us a bit of insight as to what we’re going to go through today.

Sara (02:50.955)
Sure, so within lifetime we were historically a grade two provider. However, in 2022 we got a requires improvement grade. So this topic for today is how we move from that requires improvement grade three into our 2024 inspection where we got back to our grade two. So I’ll talk you through all the different ways and means that we did

Mark Simpkins (03:19.059)
Yeah, that’s great. I’m super excited to kind of talk about it, obviously, with, you know, our backgrounds in quality and everything like this, is, you know, and I work with many providers. And, you know, I get a quite a lot of kind of providers requesting help and support in this area, right? Because there are providers out there that, you know, get that requires improvement grade. And then it’s

Sara (03:35.966)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (03:43.693)
How do we then move? How do we take this news and move forward and then head towards back to where we need to be? So, yeah, so, let’s go all the way back then to July, wasn’t it? July 2022. And that’s when Lifetime picked up that requires improvement grade. Tell us, I mean, guess, go back to that time, tell us a little bit about that experience.

And what were the key areas that were picked up at the time for

Sara (04:16.489)
Sure. Yeah, no, definitely. So the report was published in July. We had the inspection in May. And at that time, like I mentioned, the sectors that we work in, so as much as the pandemic was kind of coming out and we’re coming out of within our sectors, so in hospitality and in care, they were very much still recovering from COVID.

Mark Simpkins (04:25.589)
Okay.

Sara (04:43.41)
they were still going through a lot of changes within their working practices. There was a lot of fatigue within the, you know, with the employees that were working in those sectors. And a lot of people were also deciding that because of that kind of intense periods, they were changing their careers as well. So as well as the industry that we were working in changed.

company lifetime we were changing, we were still recovering from coming through that pandemic. And while that isn’t necessary an excuse, it’s a good piece of context to be aware of. It’s just where we were at that particular moment in time. And I think with the inspection, did the size and scale probably through us a little bit. So when the inspectors came in, we had 35 inspectors.

Mark Simpkins (05:16.225)
Mm -hmm.

Sara (05:39.111)
at that point. Yeah, and you know, to put it in context, the last inspection that we had in 2016, I think we had around 10 to 12. So even though we’d grown, we just didn’t expect that kind of growth in the volume of inspectors that we had. They looked at every program that we delivered. So was about 25, 30 programs.

Mark Simpkins (05:40.714)
Wow.

Mark Simpkins (05:52.557)
Mm -hmm.

Sara (06:07.566)
and we still only had the two days notice. So it was very difficult to work through that preparation piece, I would say. Through the inspection, was very fast paced. It was very much very reactive day by day.

Sara (06:36.035)
Yeah, it was very reactive day by day and it was very intense. So we had four days and then it got extended for another couple of days after a weekend as well. And I think the things that came out were very reflective of where we were at that moment in time, as much as it was really difficult to take on board

Mark Simpkins (06:48.343)
Mm -hmm.

Mark Simpkins (06:55.383)
Okay.

Sara (06:59.961)
that feedback and that information. Once we reflected on it, it was actually a fair reflection at that point. The key things that they brought out was that we had too many learners that were past their planned end date and we needed to work to reduce that volume and to support them to achieve their programme, but then also preventing learners from going into that state of being past their planned end date. And the other kind of key area that came through was round off the job training.

So was making sure that the learners got their entitlement, that off the job training, but then also that the training that was being provided was of a high quality. And those were the two kind of main, you know, big areas of feedback that came through. I think from a business perspective and being it’s part of that main inspection team, that was really hard hitting to hear.

Mark Simpkins (07:53.377)
Yeah,

Sara (07:55.202)
And as a business, we were really disappointed with that outcome, but also on the flip side, everyone was really exhausted as well. following from that, we just needed to take a break, I think, just to reflect and really think about what we were wanting to do next.

Mark Simpkins (08:03.499)
Yeah, I can imagine.

Mark Simpkins (08:17.887)
Yeah, that’s where I was going to come on to because it sounds a bit like the business was almost a bit shellshocked because obviously, you know, up until that point, you were regularly graded as good weren’t you and in that place and I’m glad you brought up the whole pandemic bit because yeah, I mean, particularly in the in sectors that you guys work in, you know, that was a horrible period of time to have to deal with in those sectors and obviously the impact it would have on your on the business itself.

So, you know, guess kind of following that news and I think the other thing which is kind of positive and because I was going to ask about was because, you know, we were told that during that kind of pandemic that Ofsted would consider the impact that the pandemic had on it. But it sounds like, you know, that if it was a fair result in your eyes that actually they did consider that despite, you know, it being a hard period.

Sara (09:11.328)
Yeah, I think in the sense they considered it, what was difficult to portray was the longevity of the impact of it. I think that was the difficulty, I think, and that’s where a lot of the areas that were raised were still as trying to get back into a new rhythm and routine with people getting off the job entitlement, with learners that

Mark Simpkins (09:22.454)
Sure.

Sara (09:40.159)
worked through the pandemic and we’d continued working with them, with getting them back on track. So I think it was just that longevity of being able to get ourselves, know, to get everybody back where we needed to be.

Mark Simpkins (09:54.731)
Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. Okay, so, you know, the, the, announcement that, you know, that you achieved requires improvement. said you then needed to, I guess it was a period of taking stock. Right. So, so how did then the business, you know, you know, obviously I can say we shell shop disappointed all of these kinds of words that come out that you think of what, what then happened? What was like,

Sara (10:06.515)
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

Mark Simpkins (10:21.291)
How are we going to address this? What was the action plan? What was the plan?

Sara (10:24.82)
Yeah, yeah. So what we did initially after we took that breather, took that little, you know, week or two just to just to let everything settle down because it was quite an emotive period as well. So very difficult to go into action planning when things are still quite raw. So we just made sure we took that little break to go away and reflect as a business.

Mark Simpkins (10:42.326)
Yeah, of course.

Sara (10:51.431)
Senior leadership team took the mantle and took the steer then of the reviewing and looking at the action plan. So we looked at the feedback areas that came in and really sat down and unpicked those areas. And the senior leadership team identified the core areas that through the feedback we needed to work on and looked at a timeline for that as well. And then what

what we did differently is we then brought the rest of the business in along with the journey. So from identifying the areas, we then set up working groups for each of those areas, but we brought every department into those working groups to make sure then, you know, it’s not just this department that needs to work on improving things. It’s everybody, it’s a whole business approach. And with that

We did these working groups that then identified the specific actions that we then needed to work towards an address and be really mindful of the timelines as well. It was too easy because we had quite, you know, there were really meaty areas that we had to work on and it would have been too easy to just go straight in and try and change everything all at once. we had to

you know, little bit, to sit on your hands a little bit, you know, everyone was really eager to, let’s work on everything. We had to really sit back and think about actually what’s the right timeline to introduce, what’s the right timeframe to make the change, because at the end of the day, we had 400 coaches that we needed to really manage that change process with. If we did everything too quickly, the coaches would really suffer.

And that’s what we didn’t want because at the end of the day, they’re our key people to make sure the learners get the experience that they need. So we had to really think about everything that we were going to land and implement. How would that impact the coach and how we could minimise that impact and make it as smooth as possible? So it was a, you know, every action that we implemented, there was a really thought out communication plan that we had sat alongside

Sara (13:11.152)
there was a change we brought in change management and kind of a change governance board. So that’s supported with the messaging and the timelines. And we used an external consultant as well in those initial stages, because I think what was really good is having a fresh pair of eyes look at it. The same reason you look at it and it’s still, you know, it is quite raw when you’re looking at yourself and thinking, gosh, we’ve not got something quite right.

So having someone else just support in those initial stages really helped just refine and kind of take that emotional piece out of it and be really objective and support us with the timelines and the impacts and just, you know, that just that fresh pair of eyes that, you know, that someone else to kind of consult with and talk it through with.

Mark Simpkins (14:04.821)
Yeah, it’s a really methodical way of doing it. mean, thing is, you’ve got to consider the sheer size and scale of what you guys are and the considerations. And I the way that you focused on, and what I call them is quite often is big ticket items. And it’s that prioritization, right? Of this is a big ticket item. This is how and when, and which, you know, I see a gantt chart out in my head here about how and

Sara (14:10.424)
Yes. Yeah.

Sara (14:28.696)
Yes. Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (14:31.553)
things and kind of piece together. And I love the idea of being working groups. It really does endorse that kind of quality is everybody’s responsibility, quote, that I see here, there and everywhere, right? Because it does, and you need the buy -in from everybody in order to make those improvements. So that’s really cool. so I guess that kind of, that idea in that the workshops, everything you put together help just kind of, I guess, maintain

Sara (14:40.152)
Yeah.

Sara (14:49.09)
Yeah, definitely.

Mark Simpkins (15:00.459)
morale, motivation, you know, because obviously it’s a disappointment and it’s then, yeah, how did you keep that motivation and morale

Sara (15:08.706)
Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the key things was sitting back and it’s that whole communication piece and what we did a lot more of was be really transparent with the whole business and be honest as well. you know, they picked up things that we needed to fix, but that wasn’t everything. There was still a lot of good that was out there. So it was reminding everybody of the great stuff.

Mark Simpkins (15:33.761)
Yeah, sure.

Sara (15:37.613)
that was out there. was just there’s some quite important areas that we just needed to improve on and work through. But not forgetting, we still had learners that were achieving, we were still making the difference, we were still working well with our employer partners, we were still doing good work. It was just these areas that we needed to focus on. So that was kind of the messaging was as much as think about what need to improve, don’t forget what we do.

and what we do well alongside it. And we kept that kind of messaging throughout. So with our communications, we brought the same thing, like I said, we brought everyone along the journey so they knew what the plan was, what we were working on first, how we were going to do that, what that meant to them. And we kept communicating with them really, with everybody really, really regularly on how we were progressing, what we’d done, what we’d implemented and what the impact.

Mark Simpkins (16:07.233)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sara (16:36.524)
that was having, so reminding people of now we’ve implemented this stage, we are seeing this benefit coming through. Now we’re going to move on to this stage and so on. So, and that was coming kind of top level downwards. So we brought in keep in touch conference meetings every quarter remotely, but it’s all the senior leaders explaining where we were at on our journey and not just the improvement plan, just the business in its entirety. So people would

getting fatigued at, we’ve just got to keep working on our Ofsted Improvement Plan. It was bringing it in the context of us as a business and how we were moving forward and what we were looking to do and what our strategy was. And that these improvement areas were part of that bigger picture plan as well. And that communication we kept going through regularly. We brought in a communication manager. So they…

regularly every week we had weekly, we still got weekly kind of comms that goes out to the whole business that just short and snappy reminds people of where we’re at, what we’re doing, what our next focus is and I think that repetition and reminder really kept everyone engaged and motivated along the way and along the journey.

Mark Simpkins (17:57.237)
Yeah, sounds like a great kind of strategy moving forward, which, you know, I guess then obviously those providers that requires improvement at full inspection are then due a monitor and visit, right? So tell us a bit about, you know, we’re coming up to your most recent one, but there was a monitoring visit. us when was that and how did that

Sara (18:21.301)
So the monitoring visit was in March 2023. Still a couple of days notice for that one. And there was a small group of inspectors that just came into our head office and were really looking at what we had done over that last kind of 12 months or so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Simpkins (18:42.221)
Yeah, that was only 10 months then or so, wasn’t it? Yeah, okay.

Sara (18:47.997)
and what we had implemented already in that time frame. So it was very much process. The main thing that we’d implemented and launched was a new learner management system. That was probably the biggest game changer, I would say, for us. The big, big ticket item. the main reason for that is what we fell short of is really understanding where our learners were at at any point in time in their program. So

Mark Simpkins (19:02.613)
big ticket item.

Sara (19:16.446)
data and that data insights and the new learner management system that we brought in basically allowed us to track where every single learner was at. So the coach could see it, we could see it, the management could see it, we could get insights from it, but it also housed our learning as well. So everything was all in one place and that really helped us be able

identify where we needed to intervene a lot earlier than what we had been able to do in the past. We had the full picture of our learner base and I think that was one of the pieces that really set us up to move forward and that’s what in the monitoring visit, that’s what we could showcase because we’d implemented that system and we could show how that improved us being able to track and monitor. So looking at that kind

Mark Simpkins (20:06.795)
Right.

Sara (20:15.32)
learners coming up to their past Plan Dendé and how understanding that data insight really helped us bring those interventions in a lot earlier.

Mark Simpkins (20:24.781)
That’s really interesting, Saira, just that it’s because the timing of introducing a new system, new platform, know, I know providers that shy away from this because they know that they’re either due or inspection is on its way out. And my kind of, you know, kind of viewpoint on this is that even if you’re in that midst of transition,

If from a senior leader perspective, the decision is made that this is going to be best for our business, regarding to the fact that whether you’ve got an Austin inspection due or whatever, you you, for the sake of the learner and the process and the staff and everybody, you bring it in and just cause don’t do it. That that’s exactly my kind of thought on this.

Sara (21:07.909)
do it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You’ve got to, I think you’ve got to think about doing things for the right reason at the right time. And, and as long as that integrity is there, that you’re doing things and implementing things for the right reason, then the timing, just do it at the right, the right time for you as a business. I mean, we, we started transitioning our learner management system.

when we were doing inspection. we just started migrating learners over when we had that last full inspection. you know, we were going through that change and we kept actually, you know, it was one of those kind of little jokes where, you can guarantee when we’re going to get our inspection in, it’ll be as we transition over and there it was, you These things always happen and you’ll always, if you don’t do it, you’ll always find another reason not to do

Mark Simpkins (21:42.753)
Yeah. Wow. Okay.

Mark Simpkins (21:54.965)
Hahaha

Sara (22:05.698)
So I think if you decide that changing the system is the right thing to do for your business, for the learners, for everything, then yeah, just do it. Because you can always, if you do get an inspection in the middle of it, you can explain, you can show the difference, you can show the reasons why. So yeah, I would always advocate definitely changing it.

we are reaping the benefits now and if we’d distalled and waited we would have been still in our transition period.

Mark Simpkins (22:39.819)
Yeah, I completely agree with you. I completely agree. So, Monitor and Visit came and went. They could see the progress and everything that you’re making. And so we’re head down and it’s like, right, we know that in the next X amount of time, we’re going to get re -inspected again. And so in terms of preparation, approach, what did you do differently this time compared to what you may have done

Sara (23:10.379)
Yeah, I think the biggest difference and it’s kind of a theme throughout what I’m saying really is this whole business approach. I think historically and I think it’s historically in the sector, it seems to be our department and our team that prepares for inspection is my kind of viewpoint, you know, of how it goes across. And we

changed that mindset and instilled in the business that we’re not doing everything for inspection, we’re doing everything because it’s the right thing to do for the learner. If you look at the education inspection framework, it’s basically creating a great learning experience. So if you followed that mindset that what you’re striving for is improving that learning experience, the Ofsted element comes out of just naturally feeds out of that.

From a whole business approach, the mindset was that these are the improvements, we’re doing it for the right reasons and we made sure in all of our comms that it was the right reason and the right thing for our learner. There were some elements that we didn’t take forward in our action plan because we didn’t feel it was the right thing to do. you know, we really made that conscious decision. Then on the flip side, you still have to prepare those people that are going to be heavily involved in inspection for inspection.

Mark Simpkins (24:37.228)
Mm -hmm.

Sara (24:37.516)
there was kind of two different kind of prongs of attack, I suppose you’d say. So there was the general comms going out of the improvements. And then what we did is we then made sure that we put training and development in for the people that were going to be front and centre in that inspection. I think that was the key thing. We were preparing to have 35 inspectors again and we…

what we fell short of in that last inspection where you have someone going out and doing that joint activity with the inspector. We didn’t have enough people that had that confidence and had that knowledge to be able to do that role. So we needed to make sure we had a bigger group of people that were ready to go. So, and that was the key difference in our preparation. So we did training for those people, set up an area in our internal

in our internal site, it’s called Huddled. We put a specific preparation area in there for people to go to. We did bulletins, we did videos, we did check -ins, we did interview prep, we did confidence building. We had a big plan of information and we just kept going back over, if you were asked this question, what kind of things would you talk about? We did a lot more.

preparation and that was for the coaches that would be being asked. Learners, we changed our learner interviews and our employer interviews to have a slant of the question types that they would be asked so we could continually be interviewing people with those similar kind of topics and similar tone. We made it, I don’t know if you can say we made it firm, we

put a different slant on the whole concept. So we deemed it as agents of quality. So we put a whole kind of secret agent spin on it and all of this kind of stuff, me and my element, but just to add a bit of lightness to it as well, so people could really get on board with the idea.

Mark Simpkins (26:40.693)
Hahaha, nice.

Mark Simpkins (26:45.047)
Hahaha

Sara (26:56.294)
So yeah, I would say that was the main thing. The business as usual, what you’re doing with your learners is all about improving that learner experience and then real focused sessions for those people that were going to be front and centre and heavily involved in it, whether it’s the planning, interviews, preparing documents, so everyone was really aware and also everyone was fully aware of the strategy, consistent messaging, you know, when you’re going into that inspection, I’d say.

Mark Simpkins (27:24.461)
Yeah, you always need to have contingency plans as well, don’t you? mean, in terms of, you know, very much you’ve got you’ve got a bank of people that you think are going to be heavily involved, but what happens if they’re away when so it’s like almost having a second person for every person who’s going to be involved. you know, that that’s, that’s a great approach. I think what’s really key from what you said there is that actually, there is quite a lot of preparation that’s got into that.

Sara (27:35.494)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sara (27:40.304)
Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (27:53.773)
You know, you can’t underestimate the, you know, that feeling of being prepared as well. So that you’re almost ready for, I bet you actually then by the time they came this year, you were almost like chomping at the bit. Come and see us, come and see us now because this is where we’re going to be. So tell us a little bit about your experience then, it was, so when was it?

Sara (28:10.034)
We were ready. Yeah.

Sara (28:22.118)
So it’s May.

Mark Simpkins (28:23.017)
May exactly two years.

Sara (28:25.86)
Yeah, near enough exactly two years as well. We’ve been predicting and trying to predict for, since Christmas we were kind of like, right, from Christmas it’s going to be at some point and then yeah, so was near enough exactly two years to the day when they came back in. We were lucky enough to have the five days notice now and that I would say was a big difference. And I think,

Mark Simpkins (28:28.011)
Right, okay.

Mark Simpkins (28:47.757)
Okay,

Sara (28:54.51)
I know there’s a lot going on with trying to get the notice period looked at for all providers. And I think that’s really key because even in a small provider with a two day notice, if it’s on a Friday, it’s very hard to mobilize over a weekend. Yeah, yeah. And you’re trying to mobilize everything when everyone’s got all other things planned. So I think looking at that as a cross sector is definitely.

Mark Simpkins (29:09.665)
That’s your weekend gone, right?

Sara (29:22.79)
something that we championed because that five day notice just really made everything be a lot calmer because A, we were prepared, done so, you know, we’ve done a lot of preparation, but B then you could take it one step at a time in getting everything ready. And we had

We didn’t have 35 inspectors thankfully, but we still had, I think it was 21 in total. So we still had a high volume coming out, but we worked in collaboration with the lead inspector. So it was very much daily conversations that the nominee had with the lead on where we were at, looking at the plan, looking at getting the plan organized.

and then everything else kind of filtered out from it. So we spent probably most of those kind of first three days focusing on the first day and the second day of the plan. And then once that was secured, we could then concentrate on day three and day four, but the lead was very supportive as well and very kind of reassuring. So everything was very calm. And I think that

for me being in both inspections was the clear difference. The first one, 2022, seemed very frantic on both sides. And I think that was the sheer volume and the lack of time to do the preparation. Whereas this one was a lot more working together to get the right plan in place so that we could showcase everything that we wanted to showcase. So, yeah, so having that five day

day’s notice was definitely a plus point. Then during the inspection it was very structured so we knew exactly at what point the inspectors were going to stop and just collate their feedback and then we knew and that was at two o ‘clock and then we knew that they would carry on with their activity but when we got our end of day feedback we knew it was up until two o ‘clock that day.

Mark Simpkins (31:38.796)
Make sense?

Sara (31:39.126)
So we knew exactly what feedback we were getting at that time. The feedback was really clear, really concise, really detailed. So it then allowed us to take that time in that evening to reflect and work with the lead inspector on what changes we might want to make. We wanted to promote some of our provision that wasn’t in the plan. So we managed to get that into the plan as well.

And yeah, I think it was just a better experience. It was challenging, don’t get me wrong, it was definitely challenging as it should be. But it was a better experience all around for those four full -on days.

Mark Simpkins (32:19.648)
Yeah, for sure.

Mark Simpkins (32:29.663)
Yeah, it sounds a little bit like less is more almost, but I think obviously your preparation and everything helped with that. It sounds to me like the lead inspector was, you know, communicative, spoke to you all the time and you were, it just sounded like it flowed a lot better from both sides.

Sara (32:45.183)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. And I think, you know, that preparation, the people that were out were inspectors, the inspectors were a lot more confident as well. And I think that really helped. You know, they were able to respond to questions. They were able to kind of push back confidently where they felt they needed to. And each kind of partnership of inspector and join worked really well as well throughout.

Mark Simpkins (33:06.433)
Mm -hmm.

Sara (33:15.252)
And I think the feedback and the way was very much rather than imparting own opinions, the inspection team were very much advisory as well in their feedback, you know, and the leads and the seniors that were heading up the different areas very much were appreciative of how we delivered and the sectors that we delivered in and

challenges and barriers that would naturally give us and looked at it from a very objective viewpoint of how we then implemented our curriculum and what that meant to us and so on and would give kind of advice and guidance on examples they’d seen but not really kind of say this is the best way to do it which historically we’d had before it was very much more you know objective.

Mark Simpkins (34:05.419)
Yeah,

Mark Simpkins (34:12.545)
Yeah, and developmental, it sounds like. Yeah, that’s cool. That’s good. what, that’s great. So congratulations, obviously, to everybody and stuff there on your good grades. So what now? So I mean, there must have been things that still got picked up and stuff, right? So is there any kind of plans to change anything the way you’re going or?

Sara (34:14.098)
as well. Yeah,

Sara (34:22.575)
Thank you.

Sara (34:36.872)
Definitely.

Yeah, I what’s great and I think, you you mentioned about me being staying in one company for 20 years and I think one of the main reasons for that is the continuous evolution of the company and what it wants to do. So definitely we’ve not sitting back now, you know, fantastic, we’ve got back to our grade two, but what can we do next and where can we go next? And I think…

It’s that understanding that everything is changing around us constantly. Technology is changing, teaching is changing, learning is changing, the learners and how they learn is changing. So you can’t sit back or else the next time we’d probably end up back at that grade three again, because we’ve not kept up with what we needed to keep up with. So what it has allowed us to do is giving us that platform again, you know, to get back to that grade two.

and then really think about what areas we want to push and what we want to continue to evolve. So, you know, we want to keep going with innovation, with curriculum design, with what’s out there from a technology perspective and how can we utilise that within our delivery and within our teaching and within our learning. What other markets, you know, can we be looking at?

and just really refining what processes do we need to continue to work on, what areas, know, cause there will be gaps, the business our size, everything is not going to run smoothly and perfectly. it’s now, now we can be a bit more directive of what we’re going to focus on, you know, using our data, using the insights and prioritize, and we can be really timely with it. We don’t have to work on lots of things

Sara (36:31.728)
you know, get them in really, really quickly. We can really think about what is it that we want to do and we’ve got the time to introduce things, you know, in the right time and pace. And it’s all about now with our focuses is just further enhancement, further refining and continuing with that, you know, ultimate aim of that learner experience.

Mark Simpkins (36:34.177)
Yeah.

Mark Simpkins (36:56.759)
Great, yeah, no, that’s really positive. And I completely agree, everything’s changing all of the time and everybody needs to be thinking about their next steps. How can we improve? How can we make things better? And it’s a great way to go. So, I

Just before we kind of wrap this up, we’ve gone way over what I would normally intend to do, but I’m not going to make any excuses or apologies for it because I know how important a thing is to providers and stuff out there to hear this. I just wrapping up everything that you said, Sarah. So, I I usually ask my guests for kind of three key takeaways. And I’ve listened to so many things and some excellent tips and guidance and stuff that you gave there. If you had to, you know, I guess somebody, a provider has just come out with an RI.

Sara (37:23.464)
Hahaha

Mark Simpkins (37:44.299)
you know, and they had to take stock, take that bit of time like you said, what are the three kind of big hitters that you would say, look, if it was me, these are three things I would focus on.

Sara (37:55.95)
Yeah, I think for me, it’s looking back at the governance arrangements that you’ve got in. That is really key. Making sure you’ve got some real good governance and external consultant coming in just for that objectivity and fresh eyes. think taking the time to not only look at the feedback, but also think about your organization and yourself as a provider and what it is that you want

move forward with. So using that feedback, but taking your own, putting your own stamp on it as well. Because that way people will be on board with what it is you want to drive forward. And I would say the other piece is that whole business approach, that top level, getting the right, you know, really strong leadership, clear messaging, clear cascade of information, bringing everybody on that journey with you.

will really help moving away from where it’s one team that’s going to move us forward. It’s nice. Everybody, no matter what your role is, everybody will take a part to play in moving that forward. if getting everybody involved just makes it so much sweeter and nicer when you do get back to that grade too, because everybody just feels that they’ve been part of

Mark Simpkins (39:19.381)
Yeah, engaged, involved. Yeah, great. Thank you so much for your time today and all of your information. It’s great that you’ve been able to come out and have this discussion and stuff with me and hopefully some of this guidance will help some providers out there. So.

Sara (39:21.932)
Yeah.

Sara (39:27.264)
You’re welcome.

Sara (39:39.136)
Yeah. Yeah, hope so.

Mark Simpkins (39:42.391)
Great, thank you so much. So that’s a wrap for today’s edition of FE Gold. No doubt you would have picked up some great tips and inspiration from Sarah and the team at Lifetime. If you’ve enjoyed the show, tell your connections, friends, colleagues, you know, it helps the show grow. And that’s it for this episode of FE Gold. Thanks again, Sarah, for your time.

And that’s been FE Gold with me, your host, Mark Simpkins, and thanks for stopping by.

Sara (40:15.636)
Thank you.